Lady_Suki vs BuZz_D

Otto mirror

Not the best game for both players, especially booming.

Here

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

beautiful game suki!!!!!

please tell me buzz lost this, no wait im actually gonna watch this. is someone smurfing on that acct or is it the old suki for o4b...either or....

haha buzz you are totally shithouse at this game

All of O4B had access to that account...It's probably starman55 or Johnny51...Maybe Romancandle08 OR Lysear.

yep was not a good game. i think we played this before i went away to house sit for the parents.

he had otto so i figured id mirror him. the trade route was the main difference at the start. his jans had the hp/atk card sent and i was way behind in xp. i sent cards at 40 to just follow and get caught up.

he won yay. otto does fantastic when they get a trade route. gg star

Some general comments: Boom-wise, I didn't feel like anyone did outright horrid here, although I did notice Lady_Suki's decision to not put his/her factories on Coin after hitting Imperial/getting mills up, which helps the Ottoman economy quite a bit. I also noticed Buzz's 700 wood bit that reduced the number of cards he could invest in his military, which reduced his chances of winning the first battle already.

The trade post gave Lady_Suki a significant advantage though, having Cavalry Combat and Janissary Combat with AA, Riding School and Engineering School. However, in my personal opinion, Lady_Suki could have just as easily dropped the Trickle card and gotten out Janissary Combat for his/her first army in he/she so desired.

Now onto the criticism:

Criticism for Lady_Suki: Knowing that his first army was largely Janissary, I would have made 2 or 4 horse gun and utilised their splash to great effect against his Janissary, which would have been an even faster crush on his starting army.

Also, you need to be fast, right after you won the first battle you should have slipped 10 or so jans to the natives, build up and petarded his natives and FB in that area, quickly dropping it out of his control.

In addition, watch your resource distribution, with the amount of natives you were using you needed to be more skewed towards food, but you let your distribution unbalance towards coin, which hurt you quite a bit.

Criticism for Buzz: When you know your opponent has bought spies and you have not, DO NOT make your army first. Try to scout theirs so you know what it is and make a counter army, especially when they get the trade route, which gives them a significant advantage if they know your army in advance. This choice doomed your first battle.

Also, you need to forward wall around the native to slow your opponent down, Lady_Suki was able to push into the natives much faster because you did not forward wall them, loosing you map control and giving Lady_Suki a massive military edge.

Also, if you must (note I think this is retarded) make your army in advance, when your enemy has spies, make something generic like jans, 4 horse gun, 6 culv and abus, if you micro this first army right it can beat most civilisations starting armies without much trouble. In addition, in this particular game, if you had waited and scouted, you could have done horse gun and jans and crushed Lady_Suki's main army without problem, because it had no culvs in it.

The trading post helped Lady quite a bit, but probably wasn't the determining factor.

Suprised that BuZz didn't get spies and that the otto score wasn't higher considering the 2300 boom score he posted on this site.

I don't think you can say go cannons when someone has spies because they can always make enough culvs to wipe whatever you make out.

^ ^

UofA_RX7 wrote:

The trading post helped Lady quite a bit, but probably wasn't the determining factor.

Suprised that BuZz didn't get spies and that the otto score wasn't higher considering the 2300 boom score he posted on this site.

I don't think you can say go cannons when someone has spies because they can always make enough culvs to wipe whatever you make out.

well dont he get the same score in booms then in proper games.?? hahaha

UofA_RX7 wrote:

The trading post helped Lady quite a bit, but probably wasn't the determining factor.

Suprised that BuZz didn't get spies and that the otto score wasn't higher considering the 2300 boom score he posted on this site.

I don't think you can say go cannons when someone has spies because they can always make enough culvs to wipe whatever you make out.

Well, the reason I said it was that if you have 6 or 8 culvs, with 4 horse gun, they have to have an insane number of culvs to beat you, weakening their meatshield, so it's easier to abuse huss after the first battle.

I also said it was retarded to not even buy spies and not at least wait to scout the army if he didn't buy spies. If he waits for you to make your army, scouts it, sees it's composition, then counters it with his own army, you would have to delete army to beat his first army, which costs you in the end anyway.

I think making cannons is smart and that using them right is the key to dominating first battles, but I don't think not scouting and not countering them is a smart strategy.

I know what you are saying. I think both buzz and lady in this could have done better with first armies and getting buildings built up. I was aiming more at the fact that you said buzz would have owned lady because he/she didn't have culvs. I don't think that's a hugely valid comment because Lady didn't need to make culvs.

_spunk_ wrote:

UofA_RX7 wrote:

The trading post helped Lady quite a bit, but probably wasn't the determining factor.

Suprised that BuZz didn't get spies and that the otto score wasn't higher considering the 2300 boom score he posted on this site.

I don't think you can say go cannons when someone has spies because they can always make enough culvs to wipe whatever you make out.

well dont he get the same score in booms then in proper games.?? hahaha

Just under 500 points less! hmmmmm

ok buzz was nice about us being a ass actually so ill actually be constructive.

more abus, way more especially in this mu. if you use abus it beats everything he can make besides other abus and huss, cancels out natives pretty well too. if you go mainly abus in here with cav archers and inca just to protect them you should win the fights easily. also both players just sat in the middle of the map for like 2 minutes, you should really try and control that first fight. you had a nice start in the canyon too but didnt capitalize on it, you coulda put some hard pressure down over there since he wasnt fighting in the middle yet. and when your training artillery dont throw up 5 at a time. i saw once that you had 10 falcs all in a row at the same foundry training.

I'm not a pro, but id say either make the army before they can get spies to make it more expensive or make it right before treaty end so they dont have a chance to make a counter army. of course since suki got spies so early you really only have one of these options. also some more aggressive action for the natives would be good. for starting armies some horse guns and culvs would have certainly have been beneficial. eco wise suki had the trade post so that boosted his/her score and h/she also did a much bi8gger wood trade.

the trade post was the main reason i was playing catchup. not an excuse, just painfully obvious. i beat his first army rather easily even though i was out hp by his jans.

there was also a mouse issue on my end at one point when it had a mind of its own and i had to unplug it and replug.

about the spies. i rarely spy for some reason, but in this game i didnt have a choice so much wood in my base wasnt fun. so of coarse theres factors but in the end i just made more mistakes.

those guys and there petards is just dumb and if i played better it could have been more even.

Spies in 1v1 = gay...

Not having a go...But its like those captain noobs who only do 1v1 and sit in their room as jap or french waiting for noobs...Why bother? =\
To me it takes the interest out of the game (its part of why on the 3 or 4 1v1's i have done ive quit since i dont get spies in mine and i get pwned :p) if your doing 1v1, then spies will be cheap...In a team game its a decision about risk and reward...In 1v1 you should just not do it and play like men instead of little homo bitches imo

Cant comment on the game as otto may be my second or third worst civ, but was nice record

UofA_RX7 wrote:

I know what you are saying. I think both buzz and lady in this could have done better with first armies and getting buildings built up. I was aiming more at the fact that you said buzz would have owned lady because he/she didn't have culvs. I don't think that's a hugely valid comment because Lady didn't need to make culvs.

My main thing here was that if he scouted and built him army at the last minute and Lady had no culverins, Horse gun would dominate the first fight because of their massive splash damage and basically one-hit-kill power to infantry. Basically, with scouting he'd stand a better chance of winning.

Buck the System wrote:

the trade post was the main reason i was playing catchup. not an excuse, just painfully obvious. i beat his first army rather easily even though i was out hp by his jans.

about the spies. i rarely spy for some reason, but in this game i didnt have a choice so much wood in my base wasnt fun. so of coarse theres factors but in the end i just made more mistakes.

I'd be willing to have a slightly stupid base layout in order to win the game, having an utterly beautiful base won't win me the game but spies will.

Also, you lost the fight in the middle, but won in the natives, largely due to having an overwhelming force size in the natives. As was already stated, you should have jumped on that advantage and made Suki split more.

cmontuptim wrote:

Spies in 1v1 = gay...

Not having a go...But its like those captain noobs who only do 1v1 and sit in their room as jap or french waiting for noobs...Why bother? =\
To me it takes the interest out of the game (its part of why on the 3 or 4 1v1's i have done ive quit since i dont get spies in mine and i get pwned :p) if your doing 1v1, then spies will be cheap...In a team game its a decision about risk and reward...In 1v1 you should just not do it and play like men instead of little homo bitches imo

Cant comment on the game as otto may be my second or third worst civ, but was nice record

It's a fact of life in 1v1, gotta get used to it and do it. Besides, F you, you little Australian!

Brett wrote:

UofA_RX7 wrote:

I know what you are saying. I think both buzz and lady in this could have done better with first armies and getting buildings built up. I was aiming more at the fact that you said buzz would have owned lady because he/she didn't have culvs. I don't think that's a hugely valid comment because Lady didn't need to make culvs.

My main thing here was that if he scouted and built him army at the last minute and Lady had no culverins, Horse gun would dominate the first fight because of their massive splash damage and basically one-hit-kill power to infantry. Basically, with scouting he'd stand a better chance of winning.

Buck the System wrote:

the trade post was the main reason i was playing catchup. not an excuse, just painfully obvious. i beat his first army rather easily even though i was out hp by his jans.

about the spies. i rarely spy for some reason, but in this game i didnt have a choice so much wood in my base wasnt fun. so of coarse theres factors but in the end i just made more mistakes.

I'd be willing to have a slightly stupid base layout in order to win the game, having an utterly beautiful base won't win me the game but spies will.

Also, you lost the fight in the middle, but won in the natives, largely due to having an overwhelming force size in the natives. As was already stated, you should have jumped on that advantage and made Suki split more.

cmontuptim wrote:

Spies in 1v1 = gay...

Not having a go...But its like those captain noobs who only do 1v1 and sit in their room as jap or french waiting for noobs...Why bother? =\
To me it takes the interest out of the game (its part of why on the 3 or 4 1v1's i have done ive quit since i dont get spies in mine and i get pwned :p) if your doing 1v1, then spies will be cheap...In a team game its a decision about risk and reward...In 1v1 you should just not do it and play like men instead of little homo bitches imo

Cant comment on the game as otto may be my second or third worst civ, but was nice record

It's a fact of life in 1v1, gotta get used to it and do it. Besides, F you, you little Australian!

the 1 morter was the difference at the native side. lol all he wanted to do was build foundry and petard. i knew it and was just behind in all the cards.

Being behind in cards was unavoidable even without the trade post boosting him, you dedicated 2 cards to booming whereas he only dedicated one to it (trickle, which is of debatable long-term value). It still shouldn't completely decide the outcome of the game, you basically lost the game because of the first army and because you filled pop without having spies/scouted, letting him counter your army, which is always a bad idea in 1v1 because if you get dominated in the first fight then it's going to be a very very bad situation for you to play out of.

Not trying to be overtly critical, I'm just giving my opinion of how I saw it, I think that your major strategic mistake (building army early) played a larger role in deciding the game.