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 Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt

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Brett

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PostSubject: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:36 pm

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/30/2292658/KerkPiSavoryBeefvBedingKanzaSchwarz.age3Yrec

Civilisations:
Pept: Do I really need to say it?
_PI: Germany
SavoryBeef: Ottomans + Natives

Versus

BedingBedang: Dutch
Kiyoshi_Kanza: British
Schwarzerabt: Germany


Me, Kerk and Beef had some fun here, me and Kerk being a brick wall that BB and Schwarz just couldn't seem to pass, Beef having fun against Longbows.

GG, Great fighting from all sides, so a good watch for a quality fight.

According to Kerk they lost because Beding didn't send TEAM Mortar Attack before 40 Very Happy


Last edited by Brett on Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:48 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:38 pm

if bedding would've sent team mortars a bit earlier, it probably would've been a different game. Also bedding hardly made enough culvs. He can take the blame for the loss again. lol!
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BedingBedang

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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:02 pm

Hahaha... My 2050 Dutch boom deserved mention though lol!

Honneslty there was just too many culvs vs Die and me. I kept spamming 10, 12 at a time wiht 5-10 canons. And since Dieklinge wasn doin enough of them, I had to equal your combined number, but wih 2 hands vs 4 hands to micro. Was too much. I think I did ok in the circumstances. Was a very fun battle though, and your team all fought very well.
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:29 pm

BedingBedang wrote:
Hahaha... My 2050 Dutch boom deserved mention though lol!

Honneslty there was just too many culvs vs Die and me. I kept spamming 10, 12 at a time wiht 5-10 canons. And since Dieklinge wasn doin enough of them, I had to equal your combined number, but wih 2 hands vs 4 hands to micro. Was too much. I think I did ok in the circumstances. Was a very fun battle though, and your team all fought very well.

Should've had a better boom and you guys wouldve won... 21


All jokes aside, you did good. There were so many culvs everywhere.

BTW my first army got SO OWNED!! 21
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:45 am

I like the outfit of Brett's post. Very tidy.
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:49 am

BedingBedang wrote:
Hahaha... My 2050 Dutch boom deserved mention though lol!

Honneslty there was just too many culvs vs Die and me. I kept spamming 10, 12 at a time wiht 5-10 canons. And since Dieklinge wasn doin enough of them, I had to equal your combined number, but wih 2 hands vs 4 hands to micro. Was too much. I think I did ok in the circumstances. Was a very fun battle though, and your team all fought very well.

hhhmm 2k all of a sudden? yea i know you been there before, lol! not.
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savorybeef

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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:47 am

Buck the System wrote:
BedingBedang wrote:
Hahaha... My 2050 Dutch boom deserved mention though lol!

Honneslty there was just too many culvs vs Die and me. I kept spamming 10, 12 at a time wiht 5-10 canons. And since Dieklinge wasn doin enough of them, I had to equal your combined number, but wih 2 hands vs 4 hands to micro. Was too much. I think I did ok in the circumstances. Was a very fun battle though, and your team all fought very well.

hhhmm 2k all of a sudden? yea i know you been there before, lol! not.

stfu faggot you cant do it in a real game anyways, and at least bb can actually play the game instead of just boom against comps.. trust me he didnt copy one of your shitty booms
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Disco86

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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:09 am

I watched this replay, and first i need to say these booms were really good and nearly all players did great fighting. But this was totally one-dimensional. Why dont you guys just play orinoco ? Yeah right, beacuse orinoco is for nubs. There was huge possibility to get their natives on the right side. Or to threat their eco on the left side. Nobody ever mentioned to use these posibilities. Also it is just really bad teamplay, if your ottoman is fighting 1v1 against the brit. Savory managed well most of the time, but in fact it was suicide, because ottoman got no chance against brits. If Kerk and Savory would have switched position you would have won this for sure. The way you did was really critical and a bit lucky.

savorybeef wrote:
stfu faggot
wow, you are so grown-up...
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:04 pm

savorybeef wrote:
Buck the System wrote:
BedingBedang wrote:
Hahaha... My 2050 Dutch boom deserved mention though lol!

Honneslty there was just too many culvs vs Die and me. I kept spamming 10, 12 at a time wiht 5-10 canons. And since Dieklinge wasn doin enough of them, I had to equal your combined number, but wih 2 hands vs 4 hands to micro. Was too much. I think I did ok in the circumstances. Was a very fun battle though, and your team all fought very well.

hhhmm 2k all of a sudden? yea i know you been there before, lol! not.

stfu faggot you cant do it in a real game anyways, and at least bb can actually play the game instead of just boom against comps.. trust me he didnt copy one of your shitty booms
i never said he copied.wtf dude! i just thought it was funny that he even mentions that he got a score when in reality, he recieved team2 carts. so............ maybe you should relax. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:22 pm

Disco86 wrote:
I watched this replay, and first i need to say these booms were really good and nearly all players did great fighting. But this was totally one-dimensional. Why dont you guys just play orinoco ? Yeah right, beacuse orinoco is for nubs. There was huge possibility to get their natives on the right side. Or to threat their eco on the left side. Nobody ever mentioned to use these posibilities. Also it is just really bad teamplay, if your ottoman is fighting 1v1 against the brit. Savory managed well most of the time, but in fact it was suicide, because ottoman got no chance against brits. If Kerk and Savory would have switched position you would have won this for sure. The way you did was really critical and a bit lucky.

savorybeef wrote:
stfu faggot
wow, you are so grown-up...


dont get so butthurt bro, we were going to go in on their natives hard but a dutch with a huge eco has to be adressed first, if we go at their ecos they either get natives easy, or easily pull back and defend. our plan was to just drain down bb and work from there and that worked out quite well
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Brett

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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:34 pm

Yes, as Savory said, it was our intention from the start to work BB down, when that turned out to be working pretty well we didn't see the need to switch up, Savory never got so decimated that he truly was dead, if he got in that situation and said "guys we can't do this, I'm being owned", I'd rethink our strategy and consider alternatives, such as the ones you (Disco) mentioned, but we never really got to a point where that kind of plan was needed, as we were already moving along smoothly.

Schwarzerabt and BB draining, with Kiyoshi unable to really feed his teammates without killing himself meant our plan worked, so long as things are going according to plan you don't desperately need to change it Smile

Plus I just felt a strong desire to actually micro my Uhlans, Dops, Skirms, Art, etc, because my fingers were getting tired Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:48 pm

I think Brett/Sav/Kerk are right. What you propose, Disco, is mainly to suck our eco down by the other end of the pipe. It was a wise idea to target the Dutch instead of our Brit.

As for the head to head fight vs running/shifting debate, I think both sides of the fence has some valid points. One can be good or bad at fighting, or good or bad at reading a game and adapt to the circumstances, as well as transitionning. But my main personal belief is that fighting is the 1st thing one must be good at. NOT THE ONLY thing, but the first.

I understand that someone can be a very good orico player and a poor andes one, and vica-versa. But you must also understand, Disco, that it can be frustrting to lose a game vs someone you know you would obviously beat in a fight. Its like a boxer who would outrun a stronger oponent to exhaustion in the ring, and then say: boxing is more about joggng than punching.

There is also the concept of team play I agree with you about, though. GnRe is most probably the best clan in that regard. BUT playing a game where you're never able to send two consecutive waves from the same FB is ABSOLUTELY boring, (and not accounting at all for what real historic wars were., btw).
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:00 pm

You strategy could not have been so wrong, cause you won Very Happy In my opinion its just a fact, that the ottoman uses the most recources in the fight against a brit. Especially Ottoman could easily win an artillery war against dutch, because of his fast train card. If the otto is protected by warwagons or goons/musks he is even more efficient against this dutch than the style you played. Wel lyou won, so its not necessary to discuss this... Maybe you are right. Especially the German SchwarzerAbt drained so fast, that u could fight easily that way u did. But in the end it was a little bit too exciting for my opinion bout a save win.


BedingBedang wrote:
BUT playing a game where you're never able to send two consecutive waves from the same FB is ABSOLUTELY boring
We played two games the last days, didn't we ? I switched position only three times in 20 minutes, didn't I ? So you see there is nothing to argue your way. I agree to you that just running around is annoying. But hitting the weak points of the enemies defens is a MUST. If there is only one wall and one rax at the backdoor of the natives, you MUST get in.


Last edited by Disco86 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:03 pm

Hmm I've done Otto vs Dutch a couple of times and the Dutch army is just too big unless you're fighting against umm like eddieG's Dutch, a good player who just doesn't know how to take advantage of all the pop
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:09 pm

Right, the otto has also huge problems against the masses of dutch pop. Thats why it could not work if the otto stands alone. By the way, thats not what i wanted to say, its just that the brits are extraordinary good against ottoman, so it was not the best decision the let those two fight 1v1. Neither is it a good idea to let the otto and the dutch fight 1v1.
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:10 pm

Disco86 wrote:
We played two games the last days, didn't we ? I switched position only three times in 20 minutes, didn't I ?

Yes its right. I was only being theoric.
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:24 pm

Btw Buzz... it was actually 2070 lol!

And even with team cards and wagons, I think its impressive, with a balance of something like 31 10 30 if I remember well. Its totally op. You barely hit 1750 with both mills card + 10% zapoteque activated in a real game's treaty time lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:44 pm

Disco86 wrote:
Right, the otto has also huge problems against the masses of dutch pop. Thats why it could not work if the otto stands alone. By the way, thats not what i wanted to say, its just that the brits are extraordinary good against ottoman, so it was not the best decision the let those two fight 1v1. Neither is it a good idea to let the otto and the dutch fight 1v1.

Actually Savory was doing pretty well until it turned into Brit + German native spam on him, which hurt like heck. Our bad on that front, but oh well, what's done is done. The major thing is that Longbow's + Matives is just so hard to kill.
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:01 am

Brett wrote:
Disco86 wrote:
Right, the otto has also huge problems against the masses of dutch pop. Thats why it could not work if the otto stands alone. By the way, thats not what i wanted to say, its just that the brits are extraordinary good against ottoman, so it was not the best decision the let those two fight 1v1. Neither is it a good idea to let the otto and the dutch fight 1v1.

Actually Savory was doing pretty well until it turned into Brit + German native spam on him, which hurt like heck. Our bad on that front, but oh well, what's done is done. The major thing is that Longbow's + Matives is just so hard to kill.

Dont forget I fed SAvory like 35k and you fed him like 7 k. : )


I always thought Brit w/o native vs otto with native will definitely lose to otto. I figured with otto taking away Brits cav advantage with natives would make it an easy win. Vs longbows you just need to mass artillery. You should be able to win an art war vs brit if you have fast training art. I can see though how a German native spam could drain savory.

I didn't see how much Savory actually got native spammed, bc me and Brett were fighting Natives +german +dutch , while savory used ours, and we held out fine. Brit even came by a few times and I had some longbows with Savory towards the end.

The last time I fought an otto who had 2 natives and i had no natives, i got my ass kicked. I couldn't beat his art and I couldn't cav spam him either.

I'll have to watch the game again. I could be wrong about everything and looking like a nub as usual.

Any other opinions about Savory's match up vs kanza ?
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:14 am

http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameStats.aspx?loc=en-US&GameID=ab9c6125-0051-45ca-8581-03e3c112ad94&sFlag=2&md=ZS_Treaty

I haven't watched the game since playing it, but it looks like savory made enough artillery. And he probably got spammed by German a lot more than I thought. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:18 am

imo i felt like i played like shit, i did end up having a 800+ k/d though. i killed 300 more units than the brit made total, which i think was almost all incas, when they were getting spammed at me it was a heavy stream for a while. in the mu i cant make jans because lbows will just rape them and build too slow for his spam. if i went cannon heavy i wouldnt be able to have a jan meatshield because of their uselessness when theres any mass of lbows, and the otto inca train too slow to hold up with how he spammed cav like crazy. i tried to go very heavy abus but they didnt even seem to make a real dent in the lbows. shitty otto huss didnt make any difference even though i tried to use them, i tried attack move drag micro everthing with them and they just ended up sitting still not attacking. i dont know if he cowed during the whole game but the game was pretty laggy so if he did he could have alot of extra time to cow and keep his eco booming. all in all take away the lag and it mightve been different, but with that lag there was nothing i coulda done in that mu
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:38 am

savorybeef wrote:
imo i felt like i played like shit, i did end up having a 800+ k/d though. i killed 300 more units than the brit made total, which i think was almost all incas, when they were getting spammed at me it was a heavy stream for a while. in the mu i cant make jans because lbows will just rape them and build too slow for his spam. if i went cannon heavy i wouldnt be able to have a jan meatshield because of their uselessness when theres any mass of lbows, and the otto inca train too slow to hold up with how he spammed cav like crazy. i tried to go very heavy abus but they didnt even seem to make a real dent in the lbows. shitty otto huss didnt make any difference even though i tried to use them, i tried attack move drag micro everthing with them and they just ended up sitting still not attacking. i dont know if he cowed during the whole game but the game was pretty laggy so if he did he could have alot of extra time to cow and keep his eco booming. all in all take away the lag and it mightve been different, but with that lag there was nothing i coulda done in that mu

You defintely had to be doing something right with your K/D.

I didn't even think abotu the slow otto inca train time, Good point : )


Did disco say we lost? Maybe I misinterpreted what he said. I thought kanza lagged out? lol
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:06 am

BedingBedang wrote:
Btw Buzz... it was actually 2070 lol!

And even with team cards and wagons, I think its impressive, with a balance of something like 31 10 30 if I remember well. Its totally op. You barely hit 1750 with both mills card + 10% zapoteque activated in a real game's treaty time lol!
just mentioning the fact you got the score when you had carts is just typical. team mills and fattening are fine. all other team vill cards are a joke if you try and make score at 40 a notable event!

WTF are you talking about. i showed you 3 ways of getting 2k. i will never show the 4th one because then your 35-10-30 becomes a reality. lol! keep trying you might see how.

without help from any mate 2k can be done. 50 vills i fall asleep sometimes with all the free time just sitting watching ,smokin, watching, smokin then yaya its finally time to do something.
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:17 am

kerkumus wrote:
http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameStats.aspx?loc=en-US&GameID=ab9c6125-0051-45ca-8581-03e3c112ad94&sFlag=2&md=ZS_Treaty

I haven't watched the game since playing it, but it looks like savory made enough artillery. And he probably got spammed by German a lot more than I thought. cheers
na he was allmost exclusivly vs brits the whole time. got drained fast and early vs the brit player.

he kept getting spammed by hussar over and over. the brit player didnt use LB til near the end for the most part.

now a situation like his at that time, an unbalanced eco of mostly food and wood would have made a better push than 2 pop abus. whatever happen to the mele of jans. its like no one even tries.

when in mele they speed up slightly and can be easily microed for the skirms to chase the 1 jan they are shooting at. then just run by them with the rest and build build build. it works but only until random morters are placed around. port gayness usually.
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PostSubject: Re: Pept _PI SavoryBeef versus BedingBedang Kiyoshi_Kanza Schwarzerabt   Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:50 am

mass bowmen beat otto , the cheapness of brit units means otto never gunna make a dent in brits resources , especially on andes anyways, other maps otto imo beat brits
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